Anthony Scaramucci served only very briefly — for 11 days, to be exact — as White House communications director during the Trump administration.

Yet he’s not resting in calling out the president for what he — Scaramucci — now believes are issues of leadership.

Close

In other words — he flipped.

“You’ve largely been defending the president for years,” said Fox News host Howard Kurtz of “Media Buzz” to Scaramucci on Sunday during an interview. “How did you go, in a few days, from saying Trump needs to tone down his rhetoric to calling him a [jacka**], crazy, off the rails, narcissistic — and saying the Republicans should dump him in 2020?”

Scaramucci argued that “those are probably words that his entire staff is saying about him but they’re just, unfortunately, not willing to come out in public and say them.”

“But I’m trying to understand,” said Kurtz, “why you flipped — because you didn’t just come out and say, ‘I can’t support him.’ You are now basically kind of campaigning against him.”

“He’s gone off the rails, Howie,” replied the guest. “Because he’s acting in a way that is completely unstable. It is an issue of leadership and the culture of servant leadership. He is literally … When he looks at a news feed or a news search, he is focusing on the name Trump, and not the name the United States of America. And so, the guy has completely lost it,” he went on. “Moreover, as it relates to the culture of leadership inside the White House, the Cabinet, the people that he is leading, he doesn’t lead them. He thinks that his personal charm is going to fix the China situation, or the North Korea situation, when in fact, it’s the very opposite.”

Related: Scaramucci Says GOP Might Need to Replace Trump for 2020

“And so, now, we’re in this perilous situation where he is blending racism into the leadership culture,” insisted Scaramucci during the interview.

“I’m just saying I’m a very loyal guy … I stayed loyal to him for two years. I broke gradually on several specific things. They’re taking babies, four-month-old babies, away from breastfeeding moms in ICE attacks. I mean, come on, guys. This is not the United States we grew up in.”

Who do you think would win the Presidency?

By completing the poll, you agree to receive emails from LifeZette, occasional offers from our partners and that you've read and agree to our privacy policy and legal statement.

Kurtz pointed out that Scaramucci’s critics, “especially on the Left, [are] saying this: The president has used divisive language from the beginning, they believe, and they’re saying you largely defended him. And yes, you were tough on certain issues including on this program, including some of his harsher rhetoric against the press. But you largely defended him. You wrote a book largely praising him. And now, they are saying, what took you so long?”

“I think it’s a very justifiable criticism,” replied Scaramucci, “and I will be — I will have an editorial in The Washington Post this week that fully elucidates that. Frankly, I do not have enough time on your show to fully elucidate it. But here’s what I would say to those people on the Left. We recognize that the president is a clear and present danger to the American society, the American culture. There are many people inside the White House and in the Cabinet. I would ask the Left … Let’s create an off-ramp for those people, because when you’re trying to deprogram people from a cult, one of the first things you have to do is allow them to change their mind. And you have to allow them to have the space to change their mind … So [to] me, it was a very gradual process, and they can be very critical of me for that. I have frankly owned that.”

After those controversial comments, he went on to insist that “there’s a ton of people inside that White House, inside the government, up on Capitol Hill that feel the exact same way, and I would just caution those people on Capitol Hill, when their poll numbers start to go in the direction of the president’s — I know they’re intimidated by his bullying now and I know they are intimidated by the force of his personality and his nonsense, but don’t be … Let’s just speak the truth.”

“There is a lot of things that the president has done, economically, delayering the administrative state, deregulation, tax reform, by and large, [that] has helped corporate America become more competitive. There’s a lot of things that he has done,” admitted Scaramucci.

“You’re saying,” noted Kurtz, “that you speak for some Republicans who aren’t willing to say these things publicly. But, look, you have been a very popular guy this week. You have been all over MSNBC and CNN. You sat down with Don Lemon, one of the premiere Trump bashers on cable news. You were on MSNBC with Omarosa. Sean Spicer says your defection is — I’m quoting here — catnip for the left-wing media to go out and use somebody like you to create a controversy. Does he have a point?”

“Well, he has a point,” Scaramucci admitted, “and I think it’s a very good talking point. But … people can see through the camera, in their living rooms, that that’s not really my personality. I got brutally fired by the guy — if I was going to break from the guy, why wouldn’t I have just broken right then and there? I tried to stay loyal to his agenda and his mission, but I’m also balanced today. I’m also pointing out there’s a lot of things that he’s done as it relate[s] to the economy [that] has been very helpful. The racial stuff has been very hurtful.”

Related: The ‘Never Trump’ Movement Apparently Has a New Ally

“And what I would say to Sean Spicer and others,” he added, that “ripping the social fabric of the country is a cancer. It’s a metastatic cancer. Having a recession here or there — that’s a bone break, but we can survive it. But what he is doing and the way he is processing that, and I said it on your show a few weeks ago, I said, please stop doing that. It is un-American. It is not good for our country … I’m looking at the country, my five children. I’m looking at where we are culturally.”

“When you now say all of these things — you just called him a cult leader, which is pretty incendiary language. So, were you just swallowing all of this while you were largely — and you were … you were largely a defender on television. Were you just sort of — I mean, did you have terrible judgment? Because now you’re coming out and expecting all of us to believe the guy is a terrible leader, the guy who you supported.

“I didn’t really call him a cult leader,” replied Scaramucci.

“You said members of a cult,” Kurtz reminded him.

Related: Melania Trump Is Verbally Attacked on Twitter

“OK, people in cults need to be deprogrammed, and so, therefore, you have to create an off-ramp for them,” said Scaramucci. “But on this specific question, again, I’ll say the exact same thing to you that I said three weeks ago so that you can see it’s consistent. There is a lot of things that the president has done, economically, delayering the administrative state, deregulation, tax reform, by and large, [that] has helped corporate America become more competitive. There’s a lot of things that he has done. But as I said on this show three or four weeks ago, if he continues down the path of projecting racism to try to split the country, people like myself will break from him. So … it’s been a gradual, painful process, frankly. And if you want to question my judgment, that’s fine.”

Kurtz then said to him, “I wanted you to be able to respond to what [White House spokesman] Hogan Gidley said about people like you, [that] when they see a moment they can profit personally from turning on the president … it makes them a lot more popular with the rest of the media.”

“Hogan Gidley has seen my S86, which is my financial disclosure,” the guest replied. “I’m not interested in anything like that. What I’m interested in is real leadership and less division. And I think that’s the most important thing for the country.”

On Tuesday, Trump retweeted the following about the short-term employee in his administration:

Share your thoughts below.

This article has been updated with President Donald Trump’s tweet.