Rejecting conventional wisdom, businessman and publisher Steve Forbes said Wednesday he believes Republican presidential candidates will avoid taking on Donald Trump during Wednesday night’s debate for fear of following former Texas Gov. Rick Perry to the 2016 graveyard.

“They know if they don’t start to make a breakthrough tonight, they’re going to go the way of Gov. Rick Perry,” Forbes said Wednesday on “The Laura Ingraham Show.” Perry last week became the first candidate among the 2016 GOP field to bite the dust.

“They know if they don’t start to make a breakthrough tonight, they’re going to go the way of Gov. Rick Perry,” Forbes said.

Many analysts and even some of the candidates themselves have indicated Trump will have a big target on his back since he is so far ahead in the polls. But Forbes, who publishes a magazine that bears his family name, said it would be a mistake.

“That just plays right into him, just feeds his persona as the brave outsider and all the others are part of the establishment,” he said. “The other candidates know they have to break through and come out of that debate with people having an idea of what they stand for. When people complain that they can’t be heard because of Trump, hint: You have to have something to say.”

Forbes said former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush likely will heavily promote his tax reform plan and that Sen Rand Paul, R-Ky., will try to advance his flat tax proposal.

“I think you’re going to get not so much a pig pile, but some substance coming out of this thing — finally,” said Forbes.

Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker has also recently released a policy plan, focused on reforming federal employee labor unions. Walker is likely to push the plan hard in the debate to remind voters of his victories over organized labor in Wisconsin.

“So I think you’re going to get not so much a pig pile, but some substance coming out of this thing — finally,” said Forbes.

Forbes knows something from first-hand experience about running an insurgent campaign against the Republican establishment. Though he lacked Trump’s fame, he also was a wealthy businessman who could self-finance a campaign when he launched a presidential bid in 1996. Though he fell short, he caused front-runner Bob Dole plenty of heartburn before the Kansas senator locked down the nomination later that year.

Forbes said he had heard from a “couple of (Trump’s) people” but has not yet offered formal advice on tax policy or other issues. He added he is happy to help any of the Republican candidates.

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He said Trump is wise to eschew a large, unwieldy campaign organization but added that the real estate developer would be smart to build a cadre of workers or volunteers in Iowa and other caucus states.

“You’ve got to do that nitty-gritty groundwork,” he said.

“Give credit to Harry Reid on the other side, who was always coming up with ways to thwart the Republicans,” he said. “Where’s the imagination on our side?”

Forbes said Ronald Reagan referred to the “consent of the governed” during his 1981 inaugural address.

“Right now, people feel that the governors, as Reagan said — we’re serving them rather than the other way around,” he said. “And people are frustrated.”

Forbes also heaped criticism on the Republican leaders in Congress, whom he contrasted with the effective leadership of Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev.

“Give credit to Harry Reid on the other side, who was always coming up with ways to thwart the Republicans,” he said. “Where’s the imagination on our side?”